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Yes, if you use the psycho back-end you should get exact timestamps.
The full story is a bit more complicated though. As you can imagine, canvas.show() must block the program until an image is shown in order to return an exact timestamp. This blocking is obviously highly inefficient (cpu time going to waste), so usually canvas.show() will simply return right away, after the canvas has been queued.
The behaviour of OpenSesame depends on the back-end, though. The psycho back-end should return exact timestamps, but at the cost of inefficiency.
See also the waitBlanking variable in the PsychoPy docs and this discussion.
Hope this helps!
Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry I didn't respond sooner! I've tried using the psycho back-end, but the values still seem off a bit:
EDIT: I should've know a copy-pasted table gets messed up pretty bad. Added the table above, although it's a bit messy, since I don't know html... :-S
time_beeld1 time_beeld2 difference [aanbiedingstijd]
344,15819 345,925806 1,767616 0
449,228697 460,926933 11,698236 10
563,959499 585,15134 21,191841 20
689,152282 721,427409 32,275127 30
824,902857 865,886035 40,983178 40
968,988015 1020,100768 51,112753 50
1124,0978 1185,071269 60,973469 60
1288,042243 1359,114491 71,072248 70
1462,214027 1544,109991 81,895964 80
1647,196329 1739,290304 92,093975 90
1842,972528 1944,18664 101,214112 100
The first column is for the (onset)time of an empty sketchpad, with a duration of [aanbiedingstijd] (the fourth column). The second column is the (onset)time of a second blank sketchpad. The difference between the onset of both sketchpads should be the amount of time the first sketchpad spent on screen, correct?
Since I've used a 60 Hz monitor, one screen should last about 16,67 ms, or an integer multiplication of 16,67. In light of this, pretty much all values in the third row couldn't be correct. Am I overseeing something? Is there a way of logging and/or calculating the correct values (e.g. 16,67; 16,67; 33,33; 33,33; 50 etc.).
Thanks for doing these tests!
Yes, you're right, these values are not possible given your refresh rate. They are what you would expect from a non-blocking mechanism, such as the legacy back-end, where the timestamps reflect the moment of queueing, rather than the moment of actual presentation.
Just to be sure, I verified that the Psycho backend gives accurate timestamps on my own system (Ubuntu 11.10 Laptop) using this script (paste as inline_script item): https://gist.github.com/1536868. For me, using the Psycho back-end in fullscreen, this gives the expected result in the sense that the observed duration between two displays is a multiple of 16.7 ms.
I'm not sure why it doesn't work for you. Could you provide some more details on the system that you're using? These things are highly system dependent, so it could be that. And perhaps you could send me the experiment that you used for testing (upload it somewhere or send via email, but please keep the discussion to the forum)?
(BTW, to get preserve formatting you can use the <PRE> my_code </PRE> tags)
Sorry for yet another late reply! I've checked it on a different computer (PC, win XP, OpenSesame 0.25; mine was laptop, win7, OpenSesame 0.25) and now the psycho back-end did give exact timestamps, taking the refresh rate into account beautifully!
Thanks for the help!
Hmm, I suspect that the Aero desktop effects (or whatever the graphical effects are called) are the cause of the issue on Windows 7. I can imagine that Aero is a layer that lies between OpenSesame and the video drivers. I know the same thing happens on Linux when you enable desktop effects.
Perhaps the problem disappears if you disable the Aero effects (if they were enabled to begin with)?
Anyhow, good that you got it working properly on the XP machine.
I am having a similar issue.
I try to check the timing of my stimuli and there is a slight difference between the automatic time stamps of opensesame and a variable that I create.
So I have an inline script called fix_point.
in the prepare section:
and in the run section:
Now, the time stamp that open sesame gives me is for instance time_fix_point=5485.21640755but the variable fix_point_time=5514.4769879 and the difference between the two is not a multiple of 16.67 (I am using a 60hz screen).
I assume that time_fix_point takes the time at which the run part of the inline script is performed and since not much is done before the variable fix_point_time is created I thought they should match. What I would like to know in the end is which of the two is more reliable, if the timestamp created by open sesame or the variable I create.
Thank you and see you around
Stefania Ficarella, PhD
Fédération de Recherche 3C
3, place Victor Hugo Case 32
13331 Marseille CEDEX 3
sorry I made a mistake in the numbers.
time_fix_point_odd = 5485.21640755
or fix_point_time = 9679.64263587
time_fix_point_odd = 9662.31744122
Also I tried on a different computer and the differences in time are a bit better but on average still 10 ms which is a bit too much. I would just like to know which of the two times are more reliable. Thank you
time_fix_point(i.e. the one that OpenSesame creates automatically) indicates when the run phase of the inline_script starts. In this script, a few things happen:
auto_prepare, which means that a few preparatory things are done too.
So it makes sense that
fix_point_timedoesn't correspond to the time that the script was started. In your case, you're probably more interested in the onset time of the canvas, so you'll want to use
Some general remarks:
yes I thought about that, just wanted to make sure I was seeing things right.
The script does not end there, I show a few other canvas (warning signal, stimulus) later on. In this case, would you recommend to have separate inline scripts for each one of them or it doesn't make any difference if I create a new time variable after each canvas is shown? Finally, how can I present stimuli on the screen for a fixed amount of time while still checking for key presses? I tried to remove the timeout from the keyboard function but it doesn't seem to work. Thanks!!
It usually doesn't really matter whether you use one long inline_script, or divide your code over multiple inline_script items. However, dividing the code can make your experiment more structured and easier to understand. So, from a style-perspective, I'd say it's preferable.
This depends on what your trial sequence looks like. What exactly do you want to do?
In general, doing response collection and stimulus presentation in parallel can be a bit tricky in OpenSesame, because OpenSesame uses a very serial approach. But it can be done, and it has come up quite often on this forum. (If you search for keywords like 'multiple key presses', 'parallel responses', etc.)
the thing is that I am presenting different objects in a sequence (fixation point, warning signal, fixation point, stimulus) and while I present each object I want to check for responses and also interrupt the trial if a response occurs before the stimulus presentation.
So to optimize all of this I wrote one inline script that does everything but I would like the stimulus to stay on the screen for 1 second even if a button was pressed during this time.
so this is the part of the script that does this but the timeout interrupts the presentation of my_stim if a response is detected before 1 sec. I tried to put 'None' there and add a self.sleep(1000) at the end but in case of no-response the stimulus stays on the screen indefinitely (don't really know why).
Thank you for your help
I see. That's quite a common problem that people run into. I don't know the details of your experiment, but the basic idea is the following.
You have two canvas objects,
c2. You want to present
c1for exactly 1000 ms (regardless of the RT), and present
c2afterwards. Right? So two things can happen:
Do you see the logic? The script below shows the basic idea.